This week’s discussion centers on contact tracing and some of the complexities of doing this in a workplace or college setting. The Johns Hopkins Contact Tracing Course is a good starting place but as anyone who takes the course will discover understanding the basic principles is just a starting point and there are many factors to consider. We discuss some of them highlighting the importance of open, honest communications with a no-fault approach to tracing for maximum effectiveness.
Is a good starting place but as anyone who takes the course will discover understanding the basic principles is just a starting point and there are many factors to consider. We discuss some of them highlighting the importance of open, honest communications with a no-fault approach to tracing for maximum effectiveness.
Join Dr Luis Saldana, Fred and myself for our COVID Insights to Action Discussion webinar taking place every Wednesday at 4pm ET. Our training modules are available to help businesses, education facilities and employers get their employees, staff, customers and students back to work and school safely in the context of COVID19
Raw Transcript
Nick van Terheyden
Hi, this is Dr. Nick on the incrementalist here with incremental insights for better business better health.
Fred Goldstein
And I’m Fred Goldstein. With accountable health. We’re working with Nick and others to help employers look at their health improvement programs for their employees, and how they work through COVID. And the broader issues of improving employee health. So this week, Nick, we’re going to get back to a topic we’ve discussed a few times, but sort of dig into it a little bit. And it’s an area you’ve got some unique expertise in, because you’ve actually gone through the course on this thing, which is contact tracing. So once again, contact tracing is another really important thing we need to not forget about. Right.
Nick van Terheyden
Exactly. And in fact, you know, I’ve done contact tracing in my past in my medical career, but I felt it was a good refresher, Johns Hopkins University had an online course that was, I would say, excellent, covered all the areas had assessments throughout and I had to score over a certain percentage, I forget what it was and covered that. Not that I’ve done any specific contact tracing, except in personal instances. So I’ve done a lot of this for friends and family where there’s been some questions. But, you know, key elements in this. So one is rapidity. So there is no delay, as soon as you know, somebody is positive, or there’s any reason to suspect, we need to go into overdrive. in identifying people, then it’s thinking about the time element, so when they were likely to be infected, and then working backwards, because depending on when symptoms present, or when they tested positive, you have to make some assumptions that, you know, is prior, a lot of us memory. So technology can help. I’ve not been an advocate of you know, these tracing apps and so forth. I think there’s a bunch of security, privacy issues, but it can’t help I actually have a tracking app that, you know, tells me where I’ve been, and I would use it if I was ever asked questions. But here’s the critical point. You need open and honest communications, and you need trust. And that’s really difficult to engender, when people are very suspicious for all sorts of reasons, you know, am I going to get into trouble? Did I do something wrong? You know, it’s inevitable if somebody calls me and contact me, I’m now starting to think, oh, my goodness, what did I do to spread this disease? So it really has to be done in the airline methodology of no fault. So this is not about identifying individuals and you know, labeling punishing any of those things. This is about identifying people quickly so that we can take them out of the pool. And we can do that. But it requires open and honest communications. And that’s true for employers as well, right?
Fred Goldstein
Yeah, the employers really need to consider this obviously, because it’s such a tough issue for you. You know, if somebody becomes infected, obviously the workplace, you tend to People closer, but you’re trying to use those various strategies to mitigate your risk mask wearing indoors, you know, watching your distance washing your hands, etc. But at the end of the day, it gets interesting because if somebody comes into your workplace and has an infection, and then you find out about it, it’s really important, as you said, to rapidly identify who they were near, meet those criteria for contact tracing, and notify them, so you can quickly put them into quarantine. And that raises an interesting question, Nick, that I think some employers might have. And let’s say you have an employee at your workplace, who is notified that somebody they met outside is infected, and they need to go in quarantine? Do you then need to take another layer and add a quarantine on top of that person for their contacts? Or no, because they actually don’t have the condition? And I think some employers might be confused on that.
Nick van Terheyden
Yeah. So I think that’s a great question. And it’s one that really requires help and support one of the things that we would do as part of our sort of consultative approach to this, and I would tell you, I would do exactly as I’ve done in other instances, because this has taken place, and I consider each and every one of those. So this requires a little bit of thought, it requires a deep understanding of that contact. And when that happened, what the sequence of events where they are, first the primary contact, or are they secondary, so I’ve had a number of them, where the actual individual that was positive, was then connected with another person, and then the second person connected. So that’s once removed, that changes a lot of the dynamic. So each and every time requires some thoughtful insights. And if we feel confident in doing that, that’s great. But I would suggest that having some oversight and pause around this, you can ask questions, is something that you need to potentially have help. And that’s one of the things that we do.
Fred Goldstein
Absolutely, obviously, you know, it gets tricky, as you said, as employers begin to think about these situations in their workplace, etc. And then to put in the systems to actually begin to implement, and execute against this to obviously, keep yourself operating. That’s the key here, there are ways to do these things safely. And that’s what we help companies do. I know the second issue we sort of want to discuss is one that’s come up more recently, now, particularly we’ve seen it from Dr. Fauci discussing it and others. And clearly, it’s not a recommendation, per se, yet, but this idea, and we’re beginning to see people wearing two masks, what are some of your thoughts on that?
Nick van Terheyden
Well, I, along the same lines, I, I have the fortune of having an in 95 that I’ve had put the full duration that I’ve reused and, you know, hang up and try and sort of air out and clean as much as I possibly can, because they get certainly dirty and challenging to wear multiple times. And I would use that in certain instances. And I actually think for most people, the double masking strategy as a way of mitigating this. And let’s talk about the reasons for this, we need to suppress this virus so that the R naught falls below zero, and the cases are shrinking. I think that’s what we’re seeing today. What we don’t want to do is to let up on any of this, and one of our strongest methodologies is face coverings. And we know that putting two face coverings on is an improvement. So it improves both your ability to shed the virus and also your ability to absorb it. And it’s all about the infected deposited dose, how much you get, we don’t know what the numbers exactly all, but we know the more that you get more likely you are to succumb to the disease. So putting two masks is a great idea. And I think it’s more tolerable. And I personally view a cloth mask first and then a surgical mask outside. But I know you think differently for
Fred Goldstein
Yeah, it’s interesting. And by the way, just just to point out, when you said improves the ability of exhalation and then inhalation humanity reduces the amount of virus that crosses over, it doesn’t make it easier or better for that virus to come through. Right, just so people think through improved. So he meant that from that perspective, and it’s interesting, because here’s the one. And then here’s my other one from ummc, the medical school in Mississippi where I teach, and I tend to wear them like this. And I don’t know why that is. But I do notice that it does create a much better fit for the surgical mask underneath. It really does ensure it closes off better on my face, even though I’ve tried to watch the sides and pull it all the way down. And I’m not sure it’ll be interesting to see Nick, you may be right from a study perspective, which one makes a difference? Or if it if it really doesn’t matter. And I don’t know how I guess somebody needs to really take a look at that and do some research on it.
Nick van Terheyden
Well, I think we’re gonna see studies that’s inevitable, or at least like I hope it’s inevitable so we can actually have data, but in the intervening time, let’s apply some basic thought process to this. I would say, in your case, right, you know, you have what I would call a full set. So there’s a ceiling issue that you have to consider. I personally could never possess a full set I’ve tried doesn’t happen in this space at all. And I actually find that the cloth mask is more comfortable and therefore more tolerable to wear close to my skin. So I prefer that and then I would put the surgical mask over. Just because it’s easier, I find those surgical masks tend to be a little bit more sweaty, you know, they tend to recruit the moisture, whereas the cloth masks, you know, it gets absorbed in Bob, my guidance would be each to their own, whatever works for you that you can tolerate and you can have the best seal is the best option for you.
Fred Goldstein
That’s absolutely agree with you 100% on that, and I really do notice a difference when I wear too I can tell it’s holding the air in better and creating more of a flow straight into it, etc. So, something important for employers to consider, it may be something you want to take a look at in your workplace, as well as understanding contact tracing. Again, if you have as Nick mentioned, if you have any questions or would like to contact us, you can go to veilig Health below and we’ll have a link up on the site. And we’d be happy to talk to you about your specific situation and help you out. This is Fred Goldstein with accountable health. Then thanks once again snake.
Nick van Terheyden
This is Dr. Nick on the incrementalist here with incremental insights for better business health.
Related
Tagged as Am I less likely to get COVID19 now, contact, Contact Tracing, COVID-19, COVID19, COVID_19, Employee, employers, Health, health Education, Healthcare, How do you reduce risk from COVID19, How to keep your business open in the COVID19 era, identifying, infected, Mask, Pandemic, population, Population Health, Quarantine, Safety, surgical mask, The importance of Mask wearing, tracing, wear, workplace
